Getting the Hell Out of the Way | Mike Botkin

Mark: Mike Botkin, who's the CEO of One Outdoor Holdings, and a friend, Mike, coming 

Mike: out. I got to take a picture of you guys, because my wife is like, why would someone want you to talk on anything? So, if you ever need a reality check, just come to my house, because she'll give it to you. 

Mark: So, Mike, real quick, just to orient everybody, you've done a good job on, uh, Twitter of kind of laying out your, your full story, but can you give us just, like, kind of the 90 second version of your, of your [00:01:00] journey to give everybody context?

Mike: Yeah, so, I'll take you to recent and I'll go back a little bit. We just sold, we had two commercial landscaping platforms, one in Florida, one in Georgia. We just sold them on September 29th to a strategic. Um, 28 months ago is when we started it. And the first business we bought was a sub million dollar revenue.

And it was intentionally small because I had a larger thesis and I wanted to run that business and run us to a certain point as a CEO for a proof of concept to see if this is possible and if we could do it. And one of the reasons about why I wanted to be in the driver's seat was I wanted to be able to relate to the CEOs that we were going to acquire to carry us through our thesis.

So we got to a certain point through the process and the acquisitions and then. I ended up transitioning out of that role and giving it to an industry, two industry guys in each 

Mark: platform. So, talk to us a little bit about when you, how you knew it was [00:02:00] time to make that transition. What were the markers that said, okay, now it's time to hand this off to somebody, replace 

Mike: yourself.

Yeah, we ended up on the day of closing, we were at that point a top 100 landscaping company in the country. And I think Tim and Mike just went through like Tim went through a great presentation on how to get the CEO or how to find that person. And Mike went through kind of the culture and what happens and how to lead like a successful organization.

I can tell you from like my experience and you know, maybe I. Not good enough or smart enough, but like this shit is so fucking hard. It's like unbelievable. Um, I wish I heard Tim's speech a long time ago because Finding the CEO to replace me had its own challenges from a personal level But like at the end of the day, like you're giving a giving is the wrong word, but you are letting someone run a business that has material impact to hundreds of people in the organization as well as [00:03:00] yourself, as well as the investors that entrusted me with their capital to do good things with it.

So it's a pretty big challenge. And so to answer your question, we realized the point after our third acquisition, it was time to bring in an industry experience ceo. I don't know how to turn on a lawnmower, so like, I wasn't doing the core business that well of a service and our plan was kind of get to a certain point, understand the proof of concept, and then hand it over.

Mark: And I think, uh, most people's assumption is when you bring in an industry leader. They're, they're going to do a great job and execute the plan exactly like you think they're going to, and you're going to be in full agreement the whole time. I'm guessing that's not always the case. So talk to us a little bit about navigating conflict with someone you've brought in to run a business that you kind of started.

Yeah. 

Mike: Those CEOs are only found at permanent equity, so they are not in any other business that I've seen. Um, a huge challenge, like I'm 33 and the, the, our bigger platform, the guy that we brought in is in his late [00:04:00] 40s and was a landscape guy through and through from 18 years old, never worked for anyone ever in his life.

So the reference checks that we had to do was people that worked for him, um, and another acquire that bought him earlier in his journey. What, what ends up happening is they immediately have their guard up of, you know, nothing about this industry. Like, I'm the expert, I'm the industry expert, and it's totally true, totally accurate.

But, when points of conflict come up, you have to have a mutual respect at some level between the two people. And one of the things that I say about people is understanding their weaknesses as a evaluator and observer. And when you understand those weaknesses, You have to bring it to their attention and that person's reception of it is so critical to the success of your relationship with that person and the organization moving forward.

Not only do they have to listen to what you're saying and agree that there's a weakness, they have to [00:05:00] understand it and then they have to do something to change it. And that dynamic is not always yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Like, I don't have a six pack of abs. I know I don't have a six pack of abs. I'm not going to go do anything about it.

But like, and that's often the same way with industry deep guys that are very self confident, like all the things you want to go to it, like they're very self confident, they're very, uh, accomplished, so there's a lot of historical success in their journey. And when you bring up a weakness to someone that has that long of track record, it, it's a challenge and you have to go through it.

And I, I don't think we did a good job of building the personal relationship with our CEO to do the breakthrough. Um, you talked about it earlier in your session, which I totally agree with. In the beginning, I was giving suggestions and advice. And it went nowhere, went absolutely nowhere. It was like, yeah, I, I hear you, go away.

And I was [00:06:00] like trying everything I can. I was doing phone calls. I was doing zooms. I was doing in person, never got through anywhere. And finally I was like, all right, he likes to golf. Hey, man, you want to go play golf and I'm terrible at golf and you know, we played golf a couple of times. I went to his neighborhood restaurant and had dinner with him and met his family and we went to an Orlando magic game and really dove into him as a person and drop the guard from I'm just some young kid that had money somehow to buy his business because we acquired him versus Hey, man, we're in this together like your motivation and my motivation may be a little different.

But at the end of the day, like we both want this company to be successful. So we have an aligned value there, how we get there is up for interpretation. But there are guardrails, and I just want you to be a better leader, and you want me to be a better guy on the side that's not, you know, injecting too much into your core competency.

Yeah, that's 

Mark: great. What about, um, what about situations where [00:07:00] it's not necessarily a weakness? They have a certain perspective. You have an opposing perspective. You understand where they're coming from. It's not from a bad place or a weak place. You just have a fundamental disagreement about where the business should go.

Talk to us about navigating those sorts of conversations. 

Mike: Yeah, so, um, In a prior life, I was a basketball coach. And, uh, One of the things we talk about in the basketball world is the assistant coach and head coach. Going from the assistant coach makes suggestions, very little decisions, And the head coach makes all the decisions and takes in the suggestions and the head coach knows that responsibility because he's responsible for the outcome of that, good or bad.

And I had to go from a position of making all the decisions and living with them to transitioning out of that and making all the suggestions. I shouldn't even say all like very few suggestions, but I had to live with his decision making and I had to very quickly understand and come to grips with. My way of doing it does not necessarily mean it's [00:08:00] right, and his way of doing it does not necessarily mean it's right, but he's a decision maker, and we have to be supportive and live with that.

Um, it's a big challenge, and I think where I earned some stripes on my shoulder based on feedback I was given was When we had that conflict, I disagreed wholeheartedly with the decision, but let him make it. How I then react and handled that follow up and feedback process with him on, it didn't work.

Because I think very easily, it could be, well, we should have done it this way, like I said. Or, hey man, you did this wrong, this is the 35 reasons why. And what I really learned how to do, and you probably can't tell because I ramble, is shut the fuck up and listen. Like. Ask him, have a conversation with him, take him to golf, like, someone will be so much more open and vulnerable driving in a golf cart for some reason than they will on a Zoom call.

Like, hey man, what, what happened with the, you know, the account or the acquisition we were doing? [00:09:00] Oh, and then they go on a whole spiel about it, versus if it's on a Zoom call and I'm on a shirt and tie, it's very defensive. Um, and another quick thing, just about being able to relate, like, I dressed to the occasion and to the person.

And I don't, that's never written in like textbooks or anything, but I I think it mattered. Um, not disingenuously, like I wasn't wearing a cowboy hat and cowboy boots and like walking in like I was on a ranch, but I wasn't showing up in a shirt and tie. A lot of times I wasn't showing up in a button up.

Um, I dressed how he dressed and made it as informal as possible and then obviously dress to the occasion. And the point of me saying that is it was my job to be a chameleon in his world, not his job to be chameleon in my world. Those are two drastically different viewpoints. So I think that's important.

Mark: Great. Uh, we have time for a few questions from the audience. For Mike. 

Mike: Anybody? I did say it was hard, but it was [00:10:00] fun, so don't be scared. 

Mark: Yeah. Back here. Where do you find your CEOs is the question. 

Mike: I would definitely defer to Tim on that. Um, CEO platforms. Um, it was an intentional acquisition because of them.

I will say we went from diligencing businesses Ding people and ding the leader so much more. Uh, on the business aspect, it was a very quick, and I'm embarrassed of the diligence we did on some of the businesses, but to me, once you understand the core of an industry, it, it really doesn't matter. All the other stuff, you can get lost in the shuffle.

To me, it was about the person and the people. Not a great answer for you, but our two CEOs were aqua hires. We acquired their businesses and elevated them to positions. 

Mark: Great. Uh, many thanks to Mike and Mike and Tim for the session. Thanks everybody for coming.

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